Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: You.
Welcome back to the Total Profit podcast. I'm here with Tommy P.
And today we are going to be talking about the real reason why you cannot find good help. So if you have ever said that no one wants to work anymore, then this episode is for you. So we're going to dig into the real reasons that you're struggling to hire some good people and to keep strong people and what to fix first.
So Tommy, let's open up with this.
Why is hiring just so hard right now? Why do so many business owners struggle to find and keep good help?
[00:00:42] Speaker B: Yeah, that's a great question. And you hear the conversations all over the place. It's, it's not just a labor market issue.
It's, it's really a leadership issue and a clarity issue.
That's the generations.
Oh well, sometimes I'm not known for softening blows.
[00:01:04] Speaker A: So.
[00:01:06] Speaker B: It'S, yeah, it's hard to hear and you think you're doing a great job, but sometimes the, the self reflection isn't looking at the, at the right areas. So it's, it's truly what we talk about in our, in our podcast is how do we, how do we help our clients become not only better business people, but better leaders? It's, it's, it's something that you and I both have been very passionate about in our, in our careers to, to make sure people are felt, led by our leadership and we're not, you know, holding the, holding the reins and not taking all the responsibilities. So you know, most businesses don't sell the role, they just post tasks. So it's maybe putting that a little more of that thought into what does this role really mean to me and how can it help me and how can it help the employee become that ingrained, you know, non monetary owner in our business and our, and our processes?
[00:02:13] Speaker A: So yeah, it goes back to again, we just have been pounding this drum so much lately, but designing the roles in your company for the outcomes and, and that gives people a sense of accomplishment. Like they can check that off the list and say I did that. Like they know what done looks like and when it's done it feels good. And so that creates a stickier employee for sure.
[00:02:40] Speaker B: Well, and if you approach it in a vague or desperate manner that, that adds a whole nother level of complexity that it may look good in the beginning, but it's going to rear its ugly head shortly down the road.
[00:02:55] Speaker A: So kids these days is not the problem. All right. It's really the systems that you've set up, whether you've designed the roles for outcomes and give them ownership and trust. We talked about that on our last podcast. Like, being able to delegate well is going to, you know, and defining what done looks like and what the expectations are very, very well and communicating those things very, very well.
So those systems are really, really important. And we challenged you last week to come up with some really strong operating procedures for just three, three different areas.
And then also to document just one thing that only you know how to do as the business owner and then delegate it this week. So hopefully you did that and you had some success with that and you're. And maybe, I mean, our goal is to just kind of get the bug to bite you a little bit and for you to start to get a taste of that freedom and allowing the business to kind of run without you involved in every single little process. So setting up those systems is really important. It's not the people that you're hiring. And you will lose people if you don't trust them with their job. And that turnover is expensive.
And like Tommy P. Said, sometimes desperation, you. You just really need the help. And so you hire the first warm body that walks in your door. And you don't need somebody that can just fog a mirror.
You need somebody that can drive the outcomes that you're looking for. And so don't allow that desperation to drive your hiring decisions. It creates turnover, it creates drama, it creates profit leaks. None of it is good.
[00:04:48] Speaker B: No. There's so many negatives that come out of it. Just take your time and really look into what you want. And that's. I think sometimes the owners don't. Aren't real with themselves on what they really want to do or what they knew the employees need to do to make them comfortable in letting them do more of their roles. So.
[00:05:11] Speaker A: Right.
[00:05:11] Speaker B: Yeah, it's.
We're going to get into some really. We're peeling back the onion a bit to get into some of this stuff that we want to. Want to help you change so you can have better outcomes, for sure.
[00:05:23] Speaker A: So digging a layer deep into that onion, what are some of the common internal problems that owners will overlook when they're kind of deferring that blame over to the labor pool?
[00:05:34] Speaker B: Well, you summed it up in your comment of definition of done. There's no defined role or outcome. They just show up and figure it out. So that's not a real good way to plan your work because it's again, going back to the reactive stages of our.
Of our leadership that. That cost us money. So it's getting those, those processes in place and setting that outcome up and making sure everybody is kind of pulling the rope in the same direction. The other is no clear training path plan or, or growth plan. You, you have to look past today to run your business.
I always say they, they don't design ships to turn in harbors routinely. They're meant to set a, set a journey and set a path and the course correction is, is very little. So it, it's kind of one of those things you, you need as the leader to know what that trajectory is in front of you and how you're going to get there.
And again, the, there's no culture of accountability. People want to be held accountable.
[00:06:42] Speaker A: And so I believe that so much. Can you just hit the pause button? I want you to say that again.
[00:06:49] Speaker B: So there's no culture of accountability and.
[00:06:53] Speaker A: Want to be held accountable?
[00:06:55] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:06:56] Speaker A: People want responsibility and they want to be held accountable. I believe that to my core.
It's what drives dignity.
It's what drives pride.
[00:07:07] Speaker B: Pride. Yes. Yes, yes, no. And it's such a. If good workers feel punished while the slackers pass so that there's this separation that everybody doesn't get the participation award. There is truly a hierarchy of who did good and who needs to work on doing better.
[00:07:29] Speaker A: I want to define accountability really quick. It can be good and bad.
I think most of the time when people hear accountability, they hear somebody being held to task, somebody holding their feet to the fire, that sort of thing. Accountability can be a great thing when you think about human psychology, just psychology in general. I mean, they teach you psychology 101.
The way you shape behavior is to reward the positive and punish the negative. And accountability is both. Accountability is rewarding the positive. So when, when your good workers do really well, you're rewarding that. And the slackers, they're the ones that need to be held to task, right? And that is your job as a good leader.
I said for years in corporate America, when, you know, just coaching other leaders in the organization, when you don't hold your team accountable in both positive and negative ways, when you get lazy around that the good workers, your A team, if you will, looks at, at the slackers and they see that nothing's happening over there. And so the internal dialogue that's happening in their head is why is, why am I working so hard? Why am I working so hard?
If, if I'm going to be treated the same way as that guy over there, why don't I just stand down a little bit and you're Going to lose your A team. And so that culture of accountability needs to become habitual.
And it just, it's so critically important.
The other thing is that it makes people want to work for you.
It really does that. It, people want to follow strong leaders. And so like you said, defining the role, selling those roles to people like you sell a job to a client, got to sell them on their job a little bit.
Build in the training and the support and the structure and such from day one, things like that are really, really important.
But yeah, those defining those roles and the outcomes, very, very important.
Train them, grow them and then hold them accountable to what you've entrusted them with.
[00:09:50] Speaker B: Well, that sense of accountability shows the employee that there is a standard established and there's, there's, there's rewards to accomplishing that standard. And the good. The A players or B players even are going to take that accountability as a motivator, not a demotivator.
[00:10:09] Speaker A: Exactly.
[00:10:09] Speaker B: And this is how you grab those levers and you get control of the situation. And, and, and it'd be ideal to run your business on autopilot. And there's thousands of business owners out there that do, but they have these key elements in their, in their toolbox that they implement and they stand behind and they trust.
[00:10:34] Speaker A: So I touched on it a little bit. Let's talk a little bit more. Go a little deeper on, just break down for me what makes a company attractive to some of those top tier workers.
[00:10:46] Speaker B: Yeah, no, that's, that's so critical.
Clear mission statements and directions.
Somebody's going to take your path if, you know, if you can guide them down the map of where the starting point is and where, where the endpoint is and the waypoints along the way. It's, it gives that confidence and it gives the, the employee that opportunity to focus on what they need to do.
And they know that you're going to check in with them, but you're not going to control them.
Pay, pay for performance and expectations is always a key factor. Again, you, you, you hit on it. Of the eight players are watching the, the slackers and if they're accumulating the same amount of wage, what's the incentive? So being key to that paying for performance opportunity and you'll, letting the, the team evolve but also keeping that, that accountability hard and strong and keeping them in there, you know, the other people, leaders love to be a coach and not just out there screaming orders and you know, being a raving maniac.
That's kind of the generation that, that I grew up in Is, you know, they led by volume and force, not by, you know, coaching you and teaching you what to do. We're, we're in a new generation. People don't have the skill sets, but they're willing to learn in the right environment. So take advantage of that and you create some amazing, amazing employees 100%.
[00:12:26] Speaker A: So, you know, barking orders versus coaching. Coaching involves a lot of questions and self examination and so you're, as a coach, you're sort of guiding people to the end result that you want with your questions. But it's, it's, you know, your workers generally, if you hired, well, you didn't hire dummies.
They know, they know what the answers are.
You just have to get them to that place in their brains so that you've already got their buy in. So those questions, yes, phenomenal.
[00:12:59] Speaker B: And the one thing also to, and we don't spell it out specifically, but I think it's worth mentioning is listening to your people.
People that are listened to seem to have more effective engagement than people that think they're just being talked to. So I think that's a really, really important as you create your, your leadership style. If you're in development or if you, you need some opportunities to change your, your trajectory on your, your leadership, start listening. There are some smart people out there that have really good ideas and it makes your life real easy real quick when these start clicking along.
[00:13:44] Speaker A: Amen.
And, and that takes some humility sometimes. The question that you need to ask is how can I be a better leader for you?
And, and, and really listen, they're not trying to hurt you.
No, but they do. They will communicate what they need from you and they'll be a lot more honest and sometimes brutally so if there's a way that you can ask that question anonymously.
So, okay, so what are some of the red flags then that owners, business owners need to be aware of that, that push some of those good people out the door?
[00:14:23] Speaker B: Yeah, it's, you know, and sometimes if you, you've lived this too long there, you're, you're in, you can't see the forest through the trees. It's that constant chaos and disorganization we, we kind of alluded to and we talked about in our, our last, our last podcast is getting those processes, procedures, SOPs in order. So it's repeatability. People can go back and use a reference point.
It's, it's pretty, pretty powerful when you can repeat. I always use the McDonald's analogy. It's like they can take any Age any skill set of people and make a Big Mac or a cheeseburger tastes the same on any point of the continent. And it just amazes me. So those are some of the simple proofs that these things work.
The other thing is there's no respect for time. Last minute schedule changes, no breaks. You're.
You building chaos and there's no time for people to catch their breath. And that just, it burns people out. And then you've got bigger problems. You could have medical issues, you could have, you know, they just up and leave. So, and another thing is the zero feedback or development.
Talk to your people. I mean, that's what they're there for. They want to do you a good job because they know you're paying them to do their job. And they want to be, they want to be receiving that in good faith.
[00:15:51] Speaker A: So I worked for a VP one time that I absolutely adored.
To this day, I just, just love this man dearly.
But I think he had spent so much time in his position that he sort of lost sight over the scope of his influence. He had probably 2,000 people in his organization and there were times when he would, he would, he would change the time of a meeting or something kind of last minute. And I think he, you know, just sort of lost sight of the fact that sometimes, you know, that that meeting change affected probably a thousand of those people.
And I don't ever believe that he had any ill will around anything like that. You just sort of become, you kind of get blinders on when you lose sight of that. So.
Yeah.
Yeah, okay. I like all of that.
[00:16:49] Speaker B: Almost creates a ripple effect, right? You make a decision and it waves out to the other members on the team and it's not always positive.
[00:17:00] Speaker A: Okay, so let's put that question on its head. How do we build a team that actually wants to stay and actually wants to grow and actually wants to contribute to the mission of the company?
[00:17:12] Speaker B: No, that's, that's, that's a good way to look at it. Let's reverse the equation. So let's define the roles with clear outcomes. Again, getting back to these procedures, we keep harping on, harping on, it's, it's proven itself time and time again.
Recognizing their performance publicly and specifically. And thank yous are recognition.
There's, there's no better reward than a heartfelt thank you. So be be aware of those and give them out genuinely. And again, remove the poor performers quickly and protect the team's morale. You, you know, you can let somebody linger on and, and hope utility that they're going to work themselves out. But in your gut, you know that we need to make a decision to save the rest of the team and just act on that. Do it respectfully and move on. And nine times out of ten, your instincts will point you in the right direction. You made the right choice and you had to move forward.
[00:18:16] Speaker A: So I want to talk about recognition for just a second.
There is a book out there that, a very popular book, if you haven't heard of it. It's called the Five Love Languages. And that book is specifically for romantic relationships. However, there's a version of it called the Five Love Languages in, in the workplace and it is phenomenal. So when you're recognizing performance, there are some very shy introverts out there that may really cringe and blush when you, when you call them out publicly, even if it's for good things.
I think it's really important that when you've got a staff to know what each individual's love language is because it's not different from home than it is at work. How you execute on it is different. But for example, if somebody is a gifts person at work, if you bring somebody a cup of coffee, you know, unsolicited, in the morning, they may glow. That person may just run through brick walls for you. If somebody is a quality time kind of person, there are five love languages.
These are two of them. If somebody is a quality time type of person, they may really benefit from going to lunch with you or scheduling some one on one mentoring sessions with you. Just some individual time with you may be something that really makes them feel valued and treasured.
If somebody is a kind words person, then absolutely calling them out publicly is probably going to work for them.
Touch is kind of a controversial one. You know, you don't want to, um, you, you don't want to get HR involved when it comes to touch. But you know, a handshake or a pat on the back is always appropriate for those people that you know that enjoy the touch. Anyway. It's an outstanding book recommendation.
I love it and it really does help you get to know your people better. But I like what you said.
The A players not tolerating B standards is basically how I'm going to phrase it. The A players don't tolerate B standards. If you allow lazy or late or toxic behavior, you're going to lose your best people. That's just a guarantee you're going to lose them. They may not leave your company right away, but they will quit quietly. They will stop giving you Their best effort. And the culture that you drive in your company is it's what you tolerate. It's not what you say. You can say things out loud, but if you don't, if your actions don't follow what you're saying, it's not going to work. It's just not going to work.
[00:21:02] Speaker B: And believe it or not, you're being watched. It's no different than we're raising children.
You need to lead by example. And these people are watching and it's like, why is he doing that? Why can he get away with this? And these, these less than, less than eight players take up 90% of your time.
And it just, they, then there's less time for the good people to go through those, those love languages of business that you just mentioned and put the effort in and, and truly appreciate it. And at the end of the day, the people depend on you to generate an income. And the people that show up, if they have dependence, you're creating this downline into their families that affects them. So why wouldn't you respect them like with that deep appreciation and guidance and invest in them and they will pay you back time and time again. Because it's more than just one layer at work. It goes back into the home every night. And if they go home and they're happy and they're not miserable at the dinner table, that's going to show to their children, to their spouses or spouse, not spouses.
But yeah, it's, it just, and I, you don't think of that. But these, this is part of the, they're part of the company too.
[00:22:27] Speaker A: Okay, final question.
What would you say to the business owner who is burned out on hiring.
[00:22:33] Speaker B: Oh my gosh.
Stop the insanity. Take time to fix the system, not just fill the seat. Go through the extra work.
Make sure you understand what you want this person to do. Get that definition of done and in place before the interview and before you bring them on board. It's just a, a level of respect and it's a timesaver one right Hire beats five warm bodies. I, I, I love that, that analogy because it, it's so true. You, you mentioned, you know, someone to steam a mirror, I think is what you phrased it as.
[00:23:11] Speaker A: Somebody fog a mirror.
[00:23:13] Speaker B: Fog a mirror. Yes. Thank you.
But it's truly, you need the right person and you owe it to yourself to get that right person. And the other thing is, if you keep losing people, stop blaming them. Look at, look in your own backyard to clean. See what you have to clean up to be attractive to the workforce.
[00:23:34] Speaker A: Nobody is better than the wrong body.
It really is.
So better visibility into your business is actually going to equal fewer staffing emergencies. All right, so job templates, the cost forecasting, et cetera, those are things that are going to help you avoid over and under hiring. And our software goes through and really breaks out the true cost of each one of your hires. And we can show you exactly what we mean by that if you would like a free demo. But you can scale in a very smart way with the right crew and not necessarily the largest crew every savvy business owner wants to run. Lean. As lean as possible. And so more bodies is not always the answer.
[00:24:33] Speaker B: No.
[00:24:34] Speaker A: All right, so. So your challenge for the week is to write a job post for your next hire. Not just the tasks that you want them to do, but the outcomes. And then define very specifically what Success looks like 90 days from now in your head.
We're going to give you a little bonus homework this week, too. I want you to go to your team and ask one, a player, one of your top performers on your team or why they stay. Why do they stay with you? What do they value about your organization? What do they value about you as a person, about your leadership?
What. What are. What are some of the reasons why they are with you or have stayed with you over the long haul? All right, so with that, take her. Cool. It's all going to be all right.
Thank you. And we'll see you next week.
[00:25:28] Speaker B: Thank you.
Have a good week.
